Finding the stud in the ceiling

[Tumbleweed]

I'm getting ready to do my own closet like I did the guest room closet. I know I posted pictures somewhere on this site but for the life of me I can't find them so you'd know what I'm doing and I don't feel like finding them on my photo host, which ever one they may be on.

Regardless, I can't find the studs. I have a stud finder but every time I run it across the ceiling it tells me the stud is somewhere else then the last time I ran it across.

I know wall studs are supposed to be 16 or 18 inches apart on-center but I need to go into the ceiling. Is the ceiling the same? Since I'm having such difficulty finding the studs in the ceiling I'm now worried I didn't actually hit studs in my guest bedroom closet.

I've looked on the internet but not having much luck. The walls are plaster so measuring from a corner 16 inches and then using the knocking trick doesn't work.

Also, since plaster walls and ceilings are different than just sheet-rock (drywall) do I have to use longer screws to reach the stud?


Here is a quick simple graphic to show where along the ceiling I have to attach my rail. (The off-white indicates the rails on the ceiling which will hold my sliding clothes-racks - my own invention - (patent pending.)



If anyone reading this has any insight, I'd be very grateful.

[aRMY83]

I could not have explained your situation any better and boy that is one area I'm not an expert in. Having said, over the many years of listening to others and some personal work at home, piece of cake. *I think.... I hope so*

More links on the way to you: (as if you need more!) LOL

www.diychatroom.com/f2/stud-finder-not-picking-up-ceiling-studs-67617/

www.wisegeek.com/what-is-a-ceiling-joist.htm

If none of the above assist you then I suggest this:

www.naturalhandyman.com/iip/inffastener/infanchor/infanchor.html

Toggle Bolts would be my last resort!

As for the size of screws, you be the judge on that one. If it where myself, I'd go with 2.5" and no longer than 3.0"

p.s. if you know the location for the closet, then drive a small nail in ceiling > then piece of coat hanger > send through hole > go to attic (assuming you have one) to see where it came out at. Hint: that would be your reference point to start at.

[Tumbleweed]

Appreciate the links. I'm still unsure how to go about this. I like the idea of drilling a hole to push a wire up into the attic but it gets much more complicated because the attic is finished with wood floors and the space that isn't living space has subfloors. There is a tall crawl space that is above my closet and if I remember right there is a small part next to the roof edge that doesn't have sub-floor. I need to move out boxes and move insulation to see for sure so won't get at it today. Even if there is that little gap, it is still complicated and I can't seem to think how to explain it. I have a graphic of the attic I made a while back, for a reason I can't remember now, but if I can find it, that will do better than me explaining.

Thanks again. You are always so helpful.

[aRMY83]

Hello Tumbleweed....

Sorry but won't stop 'til we figure it out or should I say "try" to figure it out....

Check this link: (this is one from Gary Sullivans radio shows)



It's just one of many links I have.

[Tumbleweed]

Very cool video. I could easily build that! I really like what I've seen so far of Sullivan's site. I bookmarked it so I can go check it out when I have time.

I still need to find that graphic of my attic so maybe you (or someone) will see the obvious when I can't. The other day when I wrote the first post I was thinking how to do the math so I'd know exactly where to drill my hole but my brain started spinning. Me and math don't get along when I'm exhasted, especially.

[Tumbleweed]

I found where I posted about the closet racks I was talking about. The post was right where it should have been. lol

shacktoshowcase.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=cpss&action=display&thread=129

Still looking for the graphic of my attic. If I don't find it soon I just may have to try to explain.

Ah ha! I found my attic graphic and added where my closet on the 2nd floor is located (pinkish-purple) plus I added where the exposed joists are (yellow).

As you can see my house is sort of like a tiered cake. (You can kind of tell by the picture in my banner) The depth of the house gets less as you go up a floor. Basement/1st floor the same. Second floor is about 2 foot less (guessing) on the front and back and then the attic is 2 foot less than the 1st floor. Each floor has about 2 foot of a roof over hang as well.

My problem is if I go to the very end of my closet and drill a hole at the end I'll be drilling into space I can't get at. So I guess I'll have to drill down from the attic in that little gap next to a stud. But then I have to measure from the end of my bedroom to where my closet starts to determine exactly where my closet is in that crawl space. (I guess I should have added where my bedroom is...well it is from the left side of my drawing up to my closet on the front side of the house.) My head is starting to spin. Then I'll have to measure how thick the wall is to the closet. And then come in that attic and measure to determine where to drill. I know it will be located pretty far back in that crawl space. Lucky me. Does that sound right to you? I know it probably sounds simple but me and measuring don't get along.



I'll have to think about this tomorrow. It is way late and I need to get to bed.

[aRMY83]

Hello again Tumble...

I'm still and just maybe we need to call in the big guns (Ask This Old House) crew. If I may add, GREAT graphics!

[Tumbleweed]

There is something that isn't making sense to me about this whole thing and I can't seem to pin-point what it is. Sometimes, if you just stop thinking about it for a while, all the sudden you'll come up with a solution. I'm hoping this is the case because every time I try to think how to do this my brain gets fogged.

I gues I could just go drill a hole and see what happens.

[Tumbleweed]

Well, I found out why my stud finder doesn't work on the plaster ceiling (and walls).

[bg=f1eee3] We want to give the explanation for why Zircon stud finders are not well suited for lath and plaster applications. Zircon (and all) stud finders measure "density" or "capacitance" behind a wall, floor or ceiling. For them to function correctly, they need to move from a point of lower density to one of higher density. You can think of it as going from a place that is more hollow to a place that is less hollow. Stud finders don't work well in lath and plaster for that exact reason -- because there are multiple pieces of wood (lath), coupled with the fact that plaster inconsistently leaks through the laths to create varying depths (or densities). So, because of the constantly varying depths, the stud finder is constantly trying to recalibrate, and therefore will not find the studs. They do work in concrete, by the way, because the material is of a more consistent density than lath and plaster. This is NOT something that is particular to Zircon stud finders, however. Any manufacturer's product will produce the same results. And we do try to alert users to this in the operating instructions. There is a work-around. If you turn the TriScanner on "Metal" scan, you can locate nails behind your wall. By locating a vertical row of nails, you have a pretty good, although not certain, idea that you've found a stud. Then switch back to "Stud" scan to verify. As I said, this isn't foolproof, but many owners of lath and plaster walls have found it effective. Dan Harrell, Director of Marketing, Zircon Corporation

www.curtpalme.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2219

This makes perfect sense and I figured it may have something to do with the way lath is. If you ever looked at the back of lath you'd see very uneven plaster seeping between the lath.

I'm going to try the "metal" scan. I believe I only used the "deep" scan mode.